BJP president Amit Shah believes 2019 elections will be a vote on the kind of leadership India wants. In an interview with Pranab Dhal Samanta, Shah argues that people will have to decide whether they want a leader who crushes terrorists or talks to them.

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Is this election about Modiji’s chemistry versus the opposition’s arithmetic?India has gone through a long phase when politics was divided into vote banks. But now vote banks are not tied to leaders. Days are over for those who do their politics considering vote banks as their fiefdoms. Today no leader can do a deal over their vote banks sitting in Delhi. Lot has changed in five years. Vote banks are now tied to issues. And when that happens, elections no longer remain physics but turn into chemistry. Politics of caste, dynasty and nepotism has changed to politics of performance. This is now a whole new era.

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Do you think the tide will reverse for the BJP in the three states it just lost?If this is the only criteria, then we should already be forming the next government. After all, we have won so many state elections. Issues are different for state and Centre. National elections have to be fought on who can ensure better national security, who can give us a sound economic system, who can improve the lot of the 50 crore poor people in the country, who can ensure financial discipline, keep it within the requisite four corners. And this work can only be done by Narendra Modi.

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What’s the dominating issue in this election?The biggest issue in this election is what kind of leadership will lead this country.And what’s your big campaign promise?Now, our aim is to bring the economy into top five and make efforts in the direction of taking it to the top three in the next five years.Will the number of seats be any different?A 100% different. We will form a government with a majority larger than what we have. Our workers are very confident.You targeted 120 seats you lost in 2014. How many of them will you win in 2019?I believe that of the seats we lost in 2014, we will win at least 50 seats. We have really worked hard for this. The geographical spread will be in the east, northeast and south.Alliance building has been tough this time…The fact is we have stitched our alliance more successfully than the Mahagatbandhan. They are in disarray, which is not the case with us. If you add the alliances in Tamil Nadu and Bihar, we are in this election with a bigger size, shape and reach compared to the past. In Bihar, compared to the assembly election results, we have got more seats.Has the SC/ST Act ordinance created angst among your upper caste votes?We have only restored status quo, not tightened or relaxed anything in the Act. And as far as the forward castes are concerned, we have taken the historic step of reservations for economically weaker sections, which will bring social justice to the poor among the forward castes. And I think, it’s their right.Is demonetisation now a negative for you? And how severe is the backlash on GST?No, it’s a big benefit. When we talk about bringing financial discipline in the country, then demonetisation and GST are major factors. Direct tax receipts have increased. More people have PAN cards, indirect tax has grown and GDP has grown. We are today the fastest growing economy. So, there’s been overall benefit. What can I do if Congress doesn’t accept this?On GST, the opposition has misguided the country. All decisions in the GST council were by consensus of all states. The Congress, which asks questions in public, must answer what were their chief ministers doing in the council. Look, India is implementing the world’s largest sales tax reform through GST. There will be teething problems — procedural, administrative and even legal – when you merge 16 taxes into one tax law. We have tried to address these concerns. And as tax collections rose, we eased the regime for some 300 items. The 28% slab is now more or less out. Businesses with up to Rs 40 lakh turnover are exempted. I think the time has come to now reap the benefits from GST.

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What’s your view on NYAY? Do you agree with Rahul Gandhi that Rs 12,000 should be the minimum income of a family?Why not more than this? But work doesn’t get done on election promises. Congress had promised right to food. They have talked of ‘garibi hatao’ for five generations. Slogans mean nothing. We have done concrete work. For the first time since Independence, 7 crore women have got gas cylinders, 2.35 crores got electricity, 2.5 crores have allotments for houses and toilets have reached the homes of 8 crore people. At least 50 crore people are benefiting from Ayushman. We have actually brought transformation in the lives of poor people under Modiji’s leadership in a systemic and scientific manner. What has happened to the farm loan waivers Congress promised in the three states (MP, Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh)? They have not been able to do so for even 10% of the farmers.

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You have opted for direct transfer of money to the farmer than farm loan waiver?Let me clarify. This (PM Kisan Samman Nidhi) scheme is not meant to reduce the loan burden of farmers. It’s a scheme meant to help farmers, who cannot take loans, at the time of input. There are 15 crore farmers in the country, of which only 3 crore can avail loans. What will the remainder 12 crores do? Where will they get their seeds and fertiliser from? To support them, this Rs 6,000 is useful.Is the BJP is politicising Pulwama and the Balakot attack?The people will have to decide what kind of government they want — one which responds to terror attacks by crushing the terrorists or one which talks to them. The BJP government under Modi has gone into Pakistan and destroyed terrorist camps, whether it was after Uri or Pulwama. Until now, there were only two countries, which took revenge of martyrdom of their soldiers – US and Israel. Because of Modiji, India is now the third country to do so.

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So is this now the policy?All I can say is we will fully utilise our right to self-defence. No one can just do what they want on our borders.

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Committed to building templeYou couldn’t build Ram temple despite governments in both state and Centre?The Supreme Court is currently seized of the matter. The decision went in favour of building a temple in the high court. So, the legal process is on. But I can assure you that BJP is committed to build the temple in the same place and location. I want to ask the SP, BSP and Congress to clarify if they want the Ram Temple in the same place or not, we have given that clarity.The SC has given time for mediation?I don’t want to comment on a court order. But what is good is that the court has only given a small timeframe of eight weeks for mediation.Is the RSS unhappy?It’s not true that nothing has happened. Our government has returned the 42 acres that the Congress had taken away from the Ramjanambhoomi Nyas. This is a big step.Will you still pursue abrogation of Article 370 in Jammu & Kashmir?First we tried for solution through peace. When that didn’t happen, we started taking controlled action against extremist and separatist groups. NIA did many raids, cut their source of funding. We banned JKLF, Jamaat-e-Islami, removed their security and ran them aground. As for 370 and 35A, this was on BJP’s agenda since the day of its inception, is there even today and will always remain until they are removed.Solution to Kashmir issueThen why did you form a government in alliance with PDP?It was a fractured mandate. We accepted that and formed a government in national interest. But when we found that the interests of the Kashmiri people and the country were being compromised, we broke the alliance.So, removal of Article 370 & 35A is the way forward for a solution to the Kashmir problem?Yes, we believe so.These core issues will be part of the manifesto?These are still our issues. We needed full majority in Parliament. We did not have this in Rajya Sabha. This time also, these issues will be part of our manifesto.Was the Citizenship Bill withdrawn due to negative feedback from the northeast?Then why would we introduce it in the first place. We do not have a majority in Rajya Sabha. By 2020, we will have majority. We will also keep it in our manifesto. This is our commitment.BJP has changed five sitting MPs in Assam?Responsibilities keep changing for workers. In our party, the worker who strives hard for the organisation is as relevant in politics as the one who fights elections.Will the BJP give tickets to more Muslims?BJP never gives tickets on the basis of who is Hindu or Muslim. We take into account a BJP worker’s winnability, his seniority, loyalty and commitment before giving a ticket. Hindu or Muslim has never been the basis of giving a ticket.

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Why is it that the BJP is unable to win the confidence of the minority community?I don’t think that’s true. Crores of women have got gas cylinders, which include women from the minority community. They have benefited from electricity, toilets and homes in numbers much larger than their proportion. In fact, they feel that perhaps for the first time someone is genuinely thinking of them. Today crores of Muslim women feel that because of Modiji, triple talaq is gone.Do you think this will translate into votes?This is a question of women’s rights and equality. It should not be linked with electoral or vote bank politics. If our Constitution recognises that women should have equal rights, then why Muslim women should be left out? We don’t view it from the perspective of a vote bank. Navin Patnaik and Mamata Banerjee have said they will give 33 % tickets to women candidates? What about BJP?If there is law, we will do it. Others have said it, but they haven’t done it yet.So, only if there’s a law?If there’s a law, then all parties will have to do it. That will be same for all.

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What are the prospects in Uttar Pradesh?We will strengthen our position. Modiji himself comes from UP…I believe that compared to any other leader since Independence, Modiji’s popularity is at the highest in UP today. The BJP will gain from this. I am fully confident that even after the SP-BSP alliance in UP, the BJP will win one seat more, not less, than 73. In politics, one plus one is not two. Sometimes it can become zero.Will Rahul Gandhi standing from Wayanad benefit BJP in Amethi?I don’t think Congress is in a situation to either benefit or disadvantage anyone in UP any longer. We reduced the margin in Amethi significantly last election. This time we are fighting for a win.Do the unemployment numbers worry you?The problem is not a crisis of jobs but a crisis of data. Let me explain. When you are the fastest growing economy in the world, when you more than double the pace of making roads and railways, make 8 crore toilets, 2.5 crore homes, construct 2 lakh railway lines, lay a digital fibre network to connect 1 lakh villages, then how can there be no jobs? All these works have led to job creation. Mudra loans also led to jobs. But there is a difference between a permanent job and a job, between employment and self-employment. I believe that for a country the size of India, we need to look at employment statistics from a new perspective.

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But isn’t there public anger?In 2014, we had six governments, today we have 16. If that was the case, then how is it that the BJP is getting peoples’ mandate.Is your fighting the Lok Sabha elections an indication that you may join the government in case NDA were to return?I don’t have to fight the Lok Sabha polls to enter the government. I am already in the Rajya Sabha. In my organisation, such decisions are not made by individuals but by the party. And in my life, the party has made all my decisions. It’s the party which wanted me to take the responsibility of the BJP president. This is a very big responsibility for a small worker like me. I am satisfied by that. I am fighting Lok Sabha because I have always been elected from the people. I have been a five-time MLA. When my term as a MLA got over, there was no Lok Sabha election. Now it has come, so I will fight the election. There’s no need to see it from any other perspective.Ideology of nationalismHow much of this election is about ideology and nationalism?Any BJP government always runs on ideology. I strongly believe that national politics must operate on the ideology of nationalism. And the people have accepted our idea of nationalism.How do you see Priyanka Gandhi’s entry into politics?This is a not a new entry. She has been in politics for 12 years. She has been campaigning for 12 years and has been losing. Last time, also she went to Lucknow, Prayagraj and Kashi…but people have rejected dynastic politics.